tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post110784703784757656..comments2023-11-02T19:19:15.129+05:30Comments on Death Ends Fun: Applause of the deafDilip D'Souzahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1108152309780432242005-02-12T01:35:00.000+05:302005-02-12T01:35:00.000+05:30"Drastic measures of sanjay gandhi made delhi a be..."Drastic measures of sanjay gandhi made delhi a beautiful city."<br /><br />I dont understand how you can interpret this line as an admiration for sanjay gandhi.The context here is clearing the slums in delhi.My stand on approving the slum clearence in bombay does not mean iam a Vilasrao Deshmukh admirer.<br />Take good care of your little ticker.jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16216362525412682389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1108146454884938462005-02-11T23:57:00.000+05:302005-02-11T23:57:00.000+05:30Drastic measures of sanjay gandhi made delhi a bea...<I>Drastic measures of sanjay gandhi made delhi a beautiful city.</I>We have here a Sanjay Gandhi admirer. Be still my thumping little ticker! What's next, an Eichmann admirer?Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1108138485638474412005-02-11T21:44:00.000+05:302005-02-11T21:44:00.000+05:30Iam with karthick on this.You guys are trying to t...Iam with karthick on this.You guys are trying to talk as if some innocent peoples who were not aware of the consequences of staying in a illegal property where evicted.<br /><br />#Don't you think they were not aware that this thing might happen one day.<br />#Don't u think the government never notified them about the encroachment.<br />#Is everybody a poor person in the slum.There are filthy rich guys in the slums.There are guys who rent houses in the slums.<br />#A middle class guy has to work his ass off to buy a small piece of land 100 of kilometers from the central city and waste half of his life travelling in the train, but all it takes for a slum dweller is to pitch a party flag and oola he has a house in down town.<br /><br />Well i will definitely kick out a guy if he pitches tent in my backyard illegaly and so should the govt.Would your bleeding heart support a guy pitching a tent in your cubicle at work.<br /><br />Drastic measures of sanjay gandhi made delhi a beautiful city.Nothing was lost, the city survived.so will bombay.<br /><br />senthil<br />http://jackofall.blogspot.com/jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16216362525412682389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1107964545731547582005-02-09T21:25:00.000+05:302005-02-09T21:25:00.000+05:30Moving this from my blog to yours ....Thank you. L...<I> Moving this from my blog to yours ....</I>Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, meet Karthik of the thoughtful blog <A HREF="http://www.blogger.com/r?http%3A%2F%2Fstochastica.blogspot.com">+: etcetera:+</A>.<br /><br /><I>Don't you see the contradiction here?</I>Actually, no. What’s happening, as I see it, is this: with the tsunami, people react as they do because they think: “that could have been me.” (I hesitate to use “there but for the grace of god go I” because that phrase has caused some literal-minded people some heartache in these pages in the past). With the slum dwellers, people react as they do because they think: “those guys deserve what’s coming to them, they are on illegal land, they are filthy and messy, they are all Bangladeshis and a threat to national security.” Etc. (Don’t laugh, I spent half an hour on the phone with a very articulate, very well-known Bombay personality this morning listening to exactly these phrases).<br /><br />Of course something drastic had to be done. But I wonder why it wasn’t one of these other drastic things. One, get rid of the Rent Control Act that has essentially killed the rental housing market in Bombay. Two, build alternative cheap rental housing for the people who need it. Three, stimulate job creation and opportunity in the rural areas. There may be more.<br /><br />Why is it that the only drastic thing that ever happens is the tearing down of the homes of the urban poor?<br /><br />I have no loathing for the middle-class, and I don’t see how it furthers your arguments to make out that I do. But I do think we in the middle-class in India don’t fully understand what’s going on with slums and our urban condition. That’s why we choose the easy option: destroy slums. Too bad it is also the futile option.Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1107938812480924002005-02-09T14:16:00.000+05:302005-02-09T14:16:00.000+05:30Sudeep: You're right, the slums are an integral pa...Sudeep: You're right, the slums are an integral part of Bombay. Thanks for saying so, especially when the vocal opinion seems to be, get rid of them.<br /><br />I don't see how you conclude that the Congress and DEshmukh escape "my vitriol" (such as it is). First of all, I've been writing since 1994 about slum demolitions, criticising whatever government was in place -- Congress or BJP, Vajpayee or Joshi or Deshmukh. Second, I've done the same with this spate of demolitions too. Every party has taken the same half-baked attitude towards the slums.<br /><br />What that has to do with secularism or being "committed" (whatever that is) is beyond me.<br /><br />Vasanth: I'm going by what my Rotary contacts in Chennai told me. In describing how they went to the help of affected people in Chennai that Sunday, they referred to some of the hutments being illegal. IF they are not, thanks for correcting me.<br /><br />Sriram, I don't know quite to answer the question of whether the huts were paid for. I mean, the land is likely not paid for, but people pay to buy a hut in a slum just like they would do anywhere else.<br /><br />Wings has got it just right: this govt came to power on the mandate of people whose houses it is now demolishing. Which is exactly why they have approached the Election Commission to take these people off the electoral rolls. The other thing Wings has right is the contrast between what happens to slums (demolition) and what happens to other illegally built structures (nothing). Slum residents themselves ask that question. If legality is the issue, then why is it selectively applied?Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1107930809716781452005-02-09T12:03:00.000+05:302005-02-09T12:03:00.000+05:30Sriram, no one is returning ill-gotten properties,...Sriram, no one is returning ill-gotten properties, nor is anyone going after them. On the contrary, we only see slums of the poor being razed to the ground and notions of freedom used to justify such actions. I felt compelled to respond to you because you sounded like (correct me if i'm wrong) it's ok to demolish the huts if/since they're not 'private property' of the dwellers.<br /><br />Sudeep, maybe the government owns those lands, even though it din't create them, nor did it buy them - the basic criteria for ownership, I guess. It just came to power on the very mandate of the likes of people whom it is evicting. I leave the question open on whether it has the right to do so.Voice on Wingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17838661126228999003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1107908544731425702005-02-09T05:52:00.000+05:302005-02-09T05:52:00.000+05:30(to the guy who raised the question of property ri...(to the guy who raised the question of property rights ? ) but what if the property is public, in the sense it belongs to the govt. :-D<br /><br />besides, at least the way its enshrined in the Indian constitution, the right to private property is not absolute. The state can, and does take away your property. (Its a different matter that if the state snatches a landlords property, that will be applauded as land reforms by the "progressives", and if it chucks out slum dwellers, they'll yell bloody murder.)<br /><br />I think people need to appreciate that the dwellers in these slums are an integral part of Mumbai. Contrary to what you might think, they are not all ragpickers, thieves, and beggars. They are taxi drivers, "4th grade" govt employees, private security guards, bhaji wallahs, casual labourers working in construction and so on. The city *can not* function without them and as such, the city and the govt. cant deal out stepmotherly treatment to them. Imagine, if the Ambanis, the Kapoors and the Thackreys decided that the dwellings of clerks and peons in Mumbai were an eyesore, and hence they would not be allowed to stay in mumbai. This decision of the govt to convert mumbai to Shanghai (and India to China ?) by demolishing slums is as illadvised as the fantastic idea of chucking out clerks and peons. Also, these people have been living there for 10-20 years.. Try hammering a nail into your bedroom wall and see if your dad doesnt hammer one into your head :-D If one nail in the walls of your new house can hurt so much, imagine what a complete demolition of your house of twenty years may cause.<br /><br />Great cities can not be built human anguish on such a scale. I dont/would not like to live in a home constructed over the ruins of someone elses.<br /><br />btw: Dilip, if it had been the NDA govt doing this, you would have been spewing venom and Vajapaye and RSS.. how come the CON-gress party and the Deshmukh govt escape your vitriol ? :-D Or is it that its just the faceless Brihann Mumbai Nagarpalika that is doing the demolitions, and Sonia Gandhi, Manmohan Singh dont know about all these things.. <br /><br />my bad.. !! for a moment I forgot that you are a "committed" journalist :-P Sonia and Manmohan are busy innocent lily white souls upholding the flag of secularism, they cant be expected to know about all this low level crap !!sudeephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14251507861876745967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1107884765970478992005-02-08T23:16:00.000+05:302005-02-08T23:16:00.000+05:30Quick question to Sriram - what about the 'huts' (...Quick question to Sriram - what about the 'huts' (actually mansions) that are really bought, but with ill-gotten wealth, bypassing the legal framework, or by force? Do you think your 'fundamental concept behind freedom' should protect those expensive huts, while demolishing these cheaper ones? Since 'private property' doesnt always translate to 'fruits of one's labor' why should it be the guiding principle to protect some, and deprive others? The slum dwellers may not be 'rightful owners' of the land they live in. But they are very much a part of this land, and cannot be wished away, just like you cant wish away the birds, the fish and the animals that populate this earth.Voice on Wingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17838661126228999003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1107876189944415342005-02-08T20:53:00.000+05:302005-02-08T20:53:00.000+05:30Few people show the guts to support the urban poor...Few people show the guts to support the urban poor. I'm glad to see your markedly different columns and blog posts. Btw, just purchased your 2001 book at the Strand fair; looking fwd to reading it.Anandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03808254503523404702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1107855387981827912005-02-08T15:06:00.000+05:302005-02-08T15:06:00.000+05:30There one other way to remove the hutments. Pay th...There one other way to remove the hutments. Pay them what they deserve. Pay them whole heartedly without getting cheated. We, indians, need to learn to respect labour. We still think manaul labour is only for the 'lower' class and they need to be paid as much.<br />If we get out of this rut and start treating them as equal then things will change. We can change whole of India into Singapore, not just Mumbai.<br />All this can be achieved only by QUALITY EDUCATION.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1107847593128266702005-02-08T12:56:00.000+05:302005-02-08T12:56:00.000+05:30Glad to have drifted by, sir... Regards and all th...Glad to have drifted by, sir... Regards and all that. and lovely work here.Annie Zaidihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08687223598027157611noreply@blogger.com