tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post112978504134286065..comments2023-11-02T19:19:15.129+05:30Comments on Death Ends Fun: Outlived its purposeDilip D'Souzahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1137002684648199812006-01-11T23:34:00.000+05:302006-01-11T23:34:00.000+05:30Hey - Cool blog, nice layout! Checkout my dmv se...Hey - Cool blog, nice layout! Checkout my dmv search blog if you can.Sonny L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17069793560525336293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130684895894110122005-10-30T20:38:00.000+05:302005-10-30T20:38:00.000+05:30Dilip's already blaming it on Hindus. Didn't you r...Dilip's already blaming it on Hindus. Didn't you read the love letter he's received from Hindus?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130672074502483692005-10-30T17:04:00.000+05:302005-10-30T17:04:00.000+05:30Now after all secular essays have been written,can...Now after all secular essays have been written,can somebody throw light on the Delhi blasts. After all there has been no riot in Delhi, there is a secular government in power. Particularly Dilip who was so happy that Pak has accepted aid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130439067293256712005-10-28T00:21:00.000+05:302005-10-28T00:21:00.000+05:30Ads are sponsored by business which are focusing o...Ads are sponsored by business which are focusing on selling their products to a specific target customer. Pure numbers will dictate where you are focusing your advertising rupees. Economics 101.<BR/>Unlike media, journalists and politicians who thrive with communal/secular tags, corporate houses will loose their shirt on Dalal street if they start playing secular or communal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130436418389719752005-10-27T23:36:00.001+05:302005-10-27T23:36:00.001+05:30We had a discussion abt how secular India was in o...We had a discussion abt how secular India was in our class a few days back and were wondering if India was really secular..Be it the constitution or law is slanting towards Hinduism..( As a student i cant say i have a better knowledge abt the constitution or law..I might b wrong sayin that its completely slanted..)<BR/>Not just politics even media looks at everything from the hindu eyes..Ads celebrate diwali ..what abt Ramzan and Id which is just around the corner..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130436385266153982005-10-27T23:36:00.000+05:302005-10-27T23:36:00.000+05:30>>Is it possible to treat every criminal as a crim...>>Is it possible to treat every criminal as a criminal and nothing else? <BR/><BR/><BR/>Please! How would our journalists feed & cloth themselves and their families if there was no caste, creed, race or religious angle to all this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130417047794174502005-10-27T18:14:00.000+05:302005-10-27T18:14:00.000+05:30Anonymous 12:40 AM said... as a hindu, i find it n...Anonymous 12:40 AM <BR/>said... <BR/>as a hindu, i find it neccessary that me and my hindu brethren take up responsibility for crimes committed in name of hinduism. <BR/><BR/>Spot on, no problem. <BR/>But will Christians take responsibility (whatever that means) for crimes committed in name of christianity? Or Muslims who did the same in name of Islam and Mohammed (PBUH)? <BR/>Or my question communal?<BR/><BR/>nikhil where is the Gurumurthy article?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130365197575345482005-10-27T03:49:00.000+05:302005-10-27T03:49:00.000+05:30AnonymousI do not think you need to take up respo...Anonymous<BR/>I do not think you need to take up responsibility. The media and others have already hauled up Hindus for any crime real or imaginary. BTW, here is an article by Gurumurthy. I may not agree with him all the time, but in this article he is spot onAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130353829099037492005-10-27T00:40:00.000+05:302005-10-27T00:40:00.000+05:30as a hindu, i find it neccessary that me and my hi...as a hindu, i find it neccessary that me and my hindu brethren take up responsibility for crimes committed in name of hinduism. By pointing out crimes of another relegious community our crimes will not be lesser. enuf name calling... let us each look in our heartsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130169181505035602005-10-24T21:23:00.000+05:302005-10-24T21:23:00.000+05:30lakkan: Our secularist card holders like Dilip hav...lakkan: <BR/><BR/>Our secularist card holders like Dilip have a deer-in-headlight look when asked as to what triggered the mobs to pull down Babri and not say others at Kashi, Mathura, Varanasi etc. They feign ignorance as to why Babri become a issue in late 90s when it wasn't one for about 40 years of our independence. If they had an iota of decency and wanted to earn a honest days wage, they could have easily seen through communal politics of a 'secular' govt which opened the locks at Babri based on a 50+ year old court case merely as a bone to hardliners on other side after the Shah Banu fiasco. <BR/><BR/>But then that would have meant calling the secular party communal and negating everything they've writing for past decade. <BR/><BR/>Yes, there is apparently no time frame when it comes to people feeling outraged and wanting others to feel it too. Our secularist like to remember Gujarat of March 02 but forget about over 100 communal riots in that very same gujarat in 70s, 80s when seculars administered the state. One wonders if they are stuck in some time warp, but then their memory makes giant leaps going back couple centuries to remind you of the hindu atrocities against "untouchables". Turn the clock to present, their mind goes blank again about riots that happened just last week or so with "oh I 'just read' about Agra!! "<BR/><BR/>Must be were nice warm and cozy in that secularist cave where time machine ports you over selective events to ensure the 'secular' credentials. <BR/>No wonder those living in real world are going <A HREF="http://us.rediff.com/cms/print.jsp?docpath=//news/2005/mar/19arvind.htm" REL="nofollow">Kya lagaya hai, yeh secular, secular?</A><BR/><BR/><BR/>Will look forward to 'Realpolitik'. Hopefully other seculars will read it too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130163729243889512005-10-24T19:52:00.000+05:302005-10-24T19:52:00.000+05:30lakkan: Our secularist card holders like Dilip hav...lakkan: <BR/><BR/>Our secularist card holders like Dilip have a deer-in-headlight look when asked as to what triggered the mobs to pull down Babri and not say others at Kashi, Mathura, Varanasi etc. They feign ignorance as to why Babri become a issue in late 90s when it wasn't one for about 40 years of our independence. If they had an iota of decency and wanted to earn a honest days wage, they could have easily seen through communal politics of a 'secular' govt which opened the locks at Babri based on a 50+ year old court case merely as a bone to hardliners on other side after the Shah Banu fiasco. <BR/><BR/>But then that would have meant calling the secular party communal and negating everything they've writing for past decade. <BR/><BR/>Yes, there is apparently no time frame when it comes to people feeling outraged and wanting others to feel it too. Our secularist like to remember Gujarat of March 02 but forget about over 100 communal riots in that very same gujarat in 70s, 80s when seculars administered the state. One wonders if they are stuck in some time warp, but then their memory makes giant leaps going back couple centuries to remind you of the hindu atrocities against "untouchables". Turn the clock to present, their mind goes blank again about riots that happened just last week or so with "oh I 'just read' about Agra!! "<BR/><BR/>Must be were nice warm and cozy in that secularist cave where time machine ports you over selective events to ensure the 'secular' credentials. <BR/>No wonder those living in real world are going <A HREF="http://us.rediff.com/cms/print.jsp?docpath=//news/2005/mar/19arvind.htm" REL="nofollow">Kya lagaya hai, yeh secular, secular?</A><BR/><BR/><BR/>Will look forward to 'Realpolitik'. Hopefully other seculars will read it too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130146280908472412005-10-24T15:01:00.000+05:302005-10-24T15:01:00.000+05:30Lakkan, you know, the Babri Masjid itself was buil...Lakkan, you know, the Babri Masjid itself was built half a millenium ago. Yet we are being asked to feel outraged that it was built then. In Israel, there are people who speak of how some particular tract of land was gifted byu Abraham, thus validating today's claims on it. So there is apparently no time frame when it comes to people feeling outraged and wanting others to feel it too. And I don't mean that in the least facetiously.<BR/><BR/>I just read about this Agra incident and am baffled and dismayed. What kind of tinderboxes are these places (Mau, Agra) that an argument in a shop can lead to such violence and tension?Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1130031278949524412005-10-23T07:04:00.000+05:302005-10-23T07:04:00.000+05:30Why do secularist find it always conveninent to fi...Why do secularist find it always conveninent to find a choose a time frame to fit their argument?<BR/>If Neille happened two decades ago babri riots happend a decade ago, so not sure if there's a imaginary cut-off date in 90s beyond which crimes started being tagged as secular/communal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1129923032836797472005-10-22T01:00:00.000+05:302005-10-22T01:00:00.000+05:30Ashutosh Singh said... [And I think that is exactl...Ashutosh Singh said... <BR/>[And I think that is exactly the point the author is trying to make in his essay...if you read carefully]<BR/><BR/>do you think author would have won the prize if he and called modi secular and paswan secular? i doubt it. look at all the prize winning essays, the theme is pretty common, might be some reflection on the judges who are deciding on these essays.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1129922380890509212005-10-22T00:49:00.000+05:302005-10-22T00:49:00.000+05:30Mr. Naqvi, I liked your essay very much but ...Mr. Naqvi,<BR/> I liked your essay very much but have some questions. Though your point that no one from the SIMI or the Muslim League has been in power when atrocities have happened is very valid and I totally agree with you that the responsibility of the state of safeguard it's citizens is far greater than any individual citizen's responsibility not to cause mayhem. However the minority community's ideologues who vitiate the public atmosphere do bear some part of the burden and should be equally condemned. The fatwas mentioned earlier are of course repugnant to any liberal and feminist, far worse are the Sharia courts which have been set up to resolve things according to the Quran. I am all for pluralism but this is taking things too far. Unless a large body of Muslim intellegensia come out in protest, as a liberal and secular Indian, I am hard pressed to believe in their secularism. To me, religion is something I practise (or not, as the case may be) in my home and I must not bring into the public sphere where it could possibily make others uncomfortable. Maybe the difference lies in the fact that the religion I was born into (since I am an agnostic, I do not claim it as my own) is an inclusive one which clearly states that there are many paths to the Creator/Supreme Being whereas the Abhramic religions are exclusive proclaming their superiority over all others as God's chosen children. I know that the last statement rubs a lot of people in the wrong way but I am being factual here. Of course I do not claim that all those who profess to follow Hinduism truly follow the precepts. <BR/><BR/>In my opinion, religion is the cause of so many wars, death and destruction that if there is truly a creator, he/she/it would be ashamed of what has been done in his/her/its name. I am sick and tired of these labels of religion, caste, language and god knows what else. I had a hope when I was 16 that there would come a day when an Indian child filling forms for college would asked his/her name, whether they are Indian and some identifying number similar to the ssn in the US, But now at nearly 32, I doubt it will happen in my lifetime or my children's. Sorry for the rant but felt I had to get it off my chest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1129919609368973242005-10-22T00:03:00.000+05:302005-10-22T00:03:00.000+05:30Dear A'mous,...The so called fuhrer of gujarat won...Dear A'mous,<BR/><BR/>...The so called fuhrer of gujarat won 48 out of 57 seats at ahmedabad this week. muslims voted heavily with bjp whihout promises of hindu leader. in bihar paswan and lalu are campaigning around with a usama look like promising a muslim cm. now who is secular?...<BR/><BR/>And I think that is exactly the point the author is trying to make in his essay...if you read carefully.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1129918706806493072005-10-21T23:48:00.000+05:302005-10-21T23:48:00.000+05:308:48 PM, Anonymous The so called fuhrer of gujarat...8:48 PM, Anonymous <BR/><BR/>The so called fuhrer of gujarat won 48 out of 57 seats at ahmedabad this week. muslims voted heavily with bjp whihout promises of hindu leader. in bihar paswan and lalu are campaigning around with a usama look like promising a muslim cm. now who is secular?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1129907910982452752005-10-21T20:48:00.000+05:302005-10-21T20:48:00.000+05:30Lakkan,>>If I knew of any SIMI or Muslim League po...Lakkan,<BR/><BR/>>>If I knew of any SIMI or Muslim League politician who as chief minister did not lift a finger to stop communal mayhem, I would have been equally vehement in attacking them. <BR/><BR/><BR/>You haven't been "equally vehement in attacking" Neille killers. Why?<BR/>Any opinion on current riots in Mau? Or these riots don't pop up on your secular radar?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1129897644489080842005-10-21T17:57:00.000+05:302005-10-21T17:57:00.000+05:30LakkanQuite a thought provoking essay. However I k...Lakkan<BR/>Quite a thought provoking essay. However I keep repeating that I am quite confident that many Indians -Hindus, Muslims and Christians are pluralistic and tolerant as how Lakkan has mentioned. The fact that an overwhelming majority hold Abdul Kalam, Azim Premji and Shahrukh Khan in high regard should be proof enough. Abdul Kalam in fact should be the role model for muslims. Here a poor muslim without any nawaabi background has risen to the highest post in the land. If anybody makes protests about these people or is uncomfortable with their rise, they should be made to shut up and brushed aside as idiots. <BR/>Hence I am unable to understand pareshaans comment to make the majority of Indians to regain their sanity and points of his essay as to how we will really become secular - Brahmins appreciating biryani or maulvi appreciating Ganesh processions. Being a Hindu, I can say that has never been an issue with Hindus. I know enough relatives and friends who love mutton &chicken biryani. What explains the popularity of ghazals, sufi music with many Hindus.<BR/>Hence it is odd that there are only passing references to Muslim fundamentalism while the Hindu fundamentalists have been hauled up and made the prime responsible target.<BR/>There is another phenomenon that everybody has missed out. Mainly arabisation of local muslim cultures. Lakkans family seems to be an ideal role model for an Indian muslim as how he can culturally blend with an Indian identity while retaining his Muslim values. In fact even in liberal SE Asia - there has been this slow process of arabisation- mainly increase in women wearing arab headscarves, people not listenning to music and even giving up playing their traditional instruments mainly because it has its origins in Hinduism.<BR/>Sadly even Indian muslims seem to be going this way and the 'secular governments and media' seem to be ignoring or encouraging this. A few examples:<BR/>The Imrana fatwa - barbaric and uncivilized for any modern society and the UP govt's ratification of it.<BR/>The Sania Mirza fatwa and the family's effort to show that they are good muslims.<BR/>The threat from some Muslim organisations against a famous Yoga teacher not to teach Muslims yoga due to its Hindu history.<BR/>In Calcutta, Muslims allowing women to burn in a fire than allowing male firefighters to rescue them. I thought such things only happened in Saudi Arabia. Worse is the WB govt vowing to recruit women firefighters. <BR/><BR/>Let us look back at the history of Hindu fundamentalism. These players have always been on the fringe and never became centre-stage. Even now can they ever pronounce any edict. Even if they do they will be laughed off.<BR/><BR/>The other problem is Secular fundamentalism I had mentioned earlier - The Shyam Benegal case. No, Dilip I cannot agree that this is not senility or outright lying. Let us look at the examples he mentioned<BR/>Border- The entire story only dealt with a battle during the Indo-Pak war. I do not think even Bukhari would find it anti muslim unless one does the Pak = muslim equation which is ironically what Benegal has accused the NDA of doing.<BR/>Gadar- Now this deals with partition and one can always expect ruffled feathers. Remember many years back how Tamas had been accused of being anti -hindu. If Benegal felt that these movies were communal and saffronised, why did he not take it up with the Censor board or with the Film industry bodies? Why speak about this at Aligarh Muslim University? Is this not plain mischiefAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1129836617968609902005-10-21T01:00:00.000+05:302005-10-21T01:00:00.000+05:30Some mentions of Shiv Sainiks and Gujarat Fuhrer, ...Some mentions of Shiv Sainiks and Gujarat Fuhrer, none regarding SIMI or Muslim League. <BR/><BR/>Truly a secular essay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1129817446390126322005-10-20T19:40:00.000+05:302005-10-20T19:40:00.000+05:30Author says: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is an h...Author says: <I>Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is an honest man and secular too boot</I><BR/><BR/>Remember <A HREF="http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=60188" REL="nofollow">Neille '83</A>? 3000 <B>muslims</B> massacred in a one day! Now PM Manmohan Singh been around Assam for what about a decade now? Has he lifted his finger to make Tiwari commission report public, that is after 23 years? Or done anything about the 600+ legal cases and 300+ chargesheets which were dropped? <BR/><BR/>Just about a year ago his government put a gag on a seminar on this issue!!! <BR/><BR/>Secular to the boot or such secularism should be given a boot? Jai ho for such secularism. Sorry make it Amin or Amen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1129795051424153822005-10-20T13:27:00.000+05:302005-10-20T13:27:00.000+05:30Pareshaan, all I can say is, there are too many ti...Pareshaan, all I can say is, there are too many times when I share Mr Naqvi's anguish, his need to plead. There are too many times when I find myself in despair, because I feel yes, things have come such a pass.<BR/><BR/>But then I find hope in the thoughts in his and your essay, and the other shortlisted ones, and in fact most of the 570 or so entries that poured in. Thanks for that hope, all of you.Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1129793916043748022005-10-20T13:08:00.000+05:302005-10-20T13:08:00.000+05:30Really thought provoking essay. It made me underst...Really thought provoking essay. It made me understand that on a day to day basis we do not deal with others as hindus or muslims. We just treat them as people. We just talk to them as friends, family, neighbours or just a good man on the street. It really does not matter what religion or caste a person belongs too. It is time that the society matures to a level where everyone is judged individually and not according to a particular group that he belongs to. If there is one thing that I've learned in the 20 short years of my life, it is this - men are just men and each one should be judged in his own right.Vinod Kharehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05329996665270601782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-1129792503852502692005-10-20T12:45:00.000+05:302005-10-20T12:45:00.000+05:30The worrying part is that things have reached a st...The worrying part is that things have reached a state that reasonable folks like Mr. Naqvi have to start pleading with Indians, to regain their sanity.<BR/>It is sad that despite expressing his suspicion of people who wear their secular credentials on their sleeves, Mr. Naqvi is forced to make an example of his family to drive home his point, and establish his secular intent. Have things come to such a pass?<BR/>A very well written essay,simple, poignant and concise. Thank you Mr. Naqvi.<BR/>And thank you Dilip, for posting all these essays. Certainly, they have given me a lot to think about.<BR/>Thanks.Pareshaanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509456792127924267noreply@blogger.com