tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post2342373024314758660..comments2023-11-02T19:19:15.129+05:30Comments on Death Ends Fun: Conversations, #14Dilip D'Souzahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-72617448754889920762010-07-09T17:01:53.471+05:302010-07-09T17:01:53.471+05:30That's cool.
If I were conducting a disc. wi...That's cool. <br /><br />If I were conducting a disc. with Beena I would have tried to get "innocent" dropped as a qualifier from "murder of civilians" for reasons I dont seem to be able to get across.<br /><br />My comm skills or the lack of them :-) is one reason I wont try what you suggested at #15- a direct interaction with a stranger in Pak.<br /><br />I dont see that this is going anywhere. Quits?<br /><br />-JaiJai_Cnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-38588932013482616462010-07-09T12:06:54.265+05:302010-07-09T12:06:54.265+05:30since any civilians attacked by fundies are not in...<i>since any civilians attacked by fundies are not innocent in *their* view</i>.<br /><br />I still dont understand. why do you expect me to know or give a damn what "fundies" think? I think the "innocent" underscores the random nature of most terrorist attacks, be it in Kashmir or Delhi, Bombay or Gujarat.<br /><br /><i>you setting the agenda</i>.<br /><br />Which matches nicely with the guy who wrote to me (or left a comment, can't remember) saying more or less "Why are you always reacting to Ms Sarwar? Why don't you raise the issues?"<br /><br />If we've managed to provoke opposite reactions like this, as the old saying goes we probably did something right.<br /><br />In addition, I have no followed your mention of "big A". Though if you're also saying it's off-track, I'll let that pass.Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-5115339299556755362010-07-09T11:58:47.356+05:302010-07-09T11:58:47.356+05:301. Sorry I wasnt clear enough.
I'm having tr...1. Sorry I wasnt clear enough. <br /><br />I'm having trouble with the use of the qualifier *innocent* before civilian esp. as used in the phrase:<br /><br />"the murder of innocent civilians"<br /><br />Let's please just go with<br /><br />"the murder of civilians"<br /><br />since any civilians attacked by fundies are not innocent in *their* view.<br /><br />2. Tone of discussion: sure. just read that way. <br /><br />Among other things, I would probably have liked some of the mail to go Beena-Dilip rather than, as it seemed, you setting the agenda and driving the disc. most of the time.<br /><br />regards,<br />Jai<br />PS: I didnt think this would evoke surprise. I once managed to get a debate/ disc to a point of <br /><br />Do not harm people even if they seem "guilty" by your value system /code/ whatever.<br /><br />My interlocutor agreed that punishing the guilty is big A's job not his (alleged) devotees'.<br /><br />The starting point for that debate was indeed, innocence and the authority to decide "guilt" and appropriateness of punishing it.<br /><br />My discussions havent always been with people who have the same sense of innocence/ guilt as I. I'm pretty sure thats if anything, more true for you.<br /><br />Okay this conv now has me telling you how to conduct your debates :-) and in stronger tone than I intended. Also off-track. bye now.Jai_Cnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-28309107360066458392010-07-08T15:29:37.466+05:302010-07-08T15:29:37.466+05:30This unfortunately *is* the fundie way of seeing i...<i>This unfortunately *is* the fundie way of seeing it. Any action they take is on "guilty" people</i>.<br /><br />You're saying the civilians that terrorists/militants kill are "guilty" people? You're objecting to calling them "innocent"? I don't follow your objection.<br /><br /><i>A boss-subordinate tone is apparent</i>...<br /><br />Not what I intended. Not what was assumed.Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-962792911903912992010-07-08T10:13:16.003+05:302010-07-08T10:13:16.003+05:30Dilip,
1. "..murder of INNOCENT civilians..&...Dilip,<br /><br />1. "..murder of INNOCENT civilians.."<br /><br />The Prof.TJ post brought me back here to check this: the lampshade qualifier *innocent*<br /><br />This unfortunately *is* the fundie way of seeing it. Any action they take is on "guilty" people.<br /><br />I am not suggesting that Ms.Sarwar is on that page any more than say you or me. I just wish you were more worried when this language gets used though.<br /><br />Getting from "do not kill the innocent" to just plain "do not kill" is a huge win.<br /><br />2. "...In the long run, of course, all three..."<br /><br />Just FYI: Maybe there has been other communication between you that sets this differently but it sure sounds there like you taking Beena's decisions for her.<br /><br />A boss-subordinate tone is apparent and without need to invoke "condescension / patronage" detectors. Its there in plain text.<br /><br />regards,<br />JaiJai_Cnoreply@blogger.com