tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post6543567770794148188..comments2023-11-02T19:19:15.129+05:30Comments on Death Ends Fun: A button and a commissionDilip D'Souzahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-17453142051389088572009-11-10T06:58:13.353+05:302009-11-10T06:58:13.353+05:30Well, I would call the website's actions reall...Well, I would call the website's actions really cheap.<br /><br />You should perhaps request a few of your friends to link to your blog post so that they are subjected to Mr. Google's treatment.<br /><br />Down with such shady people.jatkeshanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-41442074271390340332009-11-04T14:51:45.953+05:302009-11-04T14:51:45.953+05:30Bizarre (but not totally unheard of) situation, an...Bizarre (but not totally unheard of) situation, and (even for the Internet) discussion following it. <br /><br />Seasoned travellers like Mr Dilip do get taken for a ride now and then, and as several commenters above have pointed out (and listed sites where this action can be taken) complaining about being taken for a ride is common. It should hardly have bothered Mr Tiwari so much. <br /><br />But! did Mr Dilip in fact inform Mr Tiwari that he was a well-known (take a bow, Mr Dilip) journalist, and that is why his complaint would resound a little longer on the Net? No such hint from the info presented thus far. <br /><br />Still, as Douglas Adams pointed out (in The Holistic Detective Agency), "Sherlock Holmes observed that once you have eliminated the impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the answer. I, however, do not like to eliminate the impossible", so perhaps Mr Tiwari is justified in equating complaining with 'belligerent, coercion, threatening and blackmailing': after all, who knows? sharp operators may resent being outed. <br /><br />As far as the 'commission' goes, 5-star hotels too charge ridiculous prices for soft drinks and other 'packaged', 'MRP', goods, so perhaps Mr Tiwari believes that ExtendedStay is justified in doing the same. Paying 250 bucks or whatever for a bottle of water is one's choice, and so is using ExtendedStay for a hotel booking on the Net. Not using ExtendedStay is also a choice, something that Mr Tiwari may (or may not) find out suits his cost, or palate. <br /><br />But let me grouse a bit (now that I have this famous site at my disposal). I was on the Mumbai-Pune Expressway a couple of days back, and stopped (willy-nilly, that's what ST buses do) at a food court for a snack. I asked for a Cadbury's Fruit and Nut, and was appalled to find the attendant demanding Rs 35, as against the MRP Rs 30. I remonstrated with him, to which the young fellow responded, "It's not my choice, I only work here, and I can't sell it to you for less." <br /><br />I thought briefly about what it would take to get the Weights and Measures Department to raid the place (and all the other food courts on the Expressway) and decided that, in all probability, the concerned government departments are all perfectly 'aware' of what it takes to run a food court on the expressways, and raids are hardly in their interest. Mr Koda would doubtless clap his hands in delight, if they weren't clapped in cuffs already.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-78521886977376759142009-11-04T13:14:50.757+05:302009-11-04T13:14:50.757+05:30I tell the agent. When he is uncooperative, I remi...<i>I tell the agent. When he is uncooperative, I remind him</i>...<br /><br />Only, the sequence did not go quite this way. In my first note to the guy I told him I was "disappointed by what I learned in Madhai", and that I planned to tell everyone I know about this. (i.e. I didn't wait for the uncooperative part to say that I wanted to tell everyone).<br /><br />I have never asked for either my money back or an apology.<br /><br />As for who's a bigtime journalist, that's for someone else to figure out.Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-88553039978413709322009-11-04T11:15:33.191+05:302009-11-04T11:15:33.191+05:30wow this thread is still live!
Reversing the cash-...wow this thread is still live!<br />Reversing the cash-flow proved interesting and kind of made it different. Eg.<br /><br />'Dilip' rents out rooms at his resort thru 'Tiwari' for 5K per night. 'Madhai' takes it thru T for 10K per night. <br /><br />When D comes to know, he approaches T and complains.<br /><br />The crux of Suresh's arg. seems to be that this is pretty much the same thing.<br /><br />To me though, it makes a difference what D asks T to do in this case:<br /> - give me 4K<br /> - give M back 4K<br /><br />One of these feels more right than the other though there is no legal basis most likely for the complaint.<br /><br />rgds,<br />Jai<br />PS: Dilip I think Chitta has your example as:<br /> I go to a resort. find out I have been charged 100% + commission. I tell the agent. When he is uncooperative, I remind him that I am a "bigname journalist" and imply that I can make things tougher for him than he imagines. I still dont get a refund or an apology. He just gets more combative with hemorroids and saliva. I go ahead and....<br /><br />.... do a story on NDTV!<br />.... write it up on my blog.<br /><br />tick one of the above.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-78188555207753111332009-11-04T07:12:44.253+05:302009-11-04T07:12:44.253+05:30insignificant: but of course I look at it that way...insignificant: but of course I look at it that way (that I didn't do my homework and got duped). I thought that much was clear from my mention of how I "trusted them" and was "naive". I had left plans till very late, I was in a huge rush with all kinds of other things, and this happened. Most of all, I'm kicking myself.<br /><br />Chitta: point taken. But while I might quibble with what power I have and so on, let me pose a few hypothetical scenarios:<br /><br />* I read a book, like it a lot and write a review saying so.<br /><br />* I read a book, think it is mediocre and write a review saying so.<br /><br />* I go to a homestay in a holiday destination, think the servie and location etc is outstanding, and write an account saying so, recommending that others go there.<br /><br />* I go to a resort overrun by cockroaches, where the sheets and towels are dirty, I write an account saying so and recommending that others don't go there.<br /><br />* I go on a holiday in a resort that I've paid an agent to book for me, I find out that the agent has charged me twice what I would have paid had I gone to the resort directly, I write an account saying so and recommending that others don't use that agent.<br /><br />OK, 5 situations. As it happens, they are not really hypothetical, I've done all 5 at different times.<br /><br />In which of these 5 would you tell me that as a writer I have a lot of power and I should use it responsibly? Why or why not?Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-22561699996307513172009-11-04T01:19:43.311+05:302009-11-04T01:19:43.311+05:30Dilip,
While I agree that ExtendedStay took you fo...Dilip,<br />While I agree that ExtendedStay took you for a ride (and well, in civilised society that should not be allowed, and that's what customer forums are for. Please do lodge a complaint)... look at it this way as well. <br />You did not research enough, did not find out enough about the prices and the rates offered by other travel booking agencies. And got duped. Partly to blame, don't you agree? Really, research does not take much. Two hours on Google and say three or four phone calls, and that's all.insignificanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17191339104431724997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-69102886689633187592009-11-02T23:12:42.483+05:302009-11-02T23:12:42.483+05:30Dear Dilip:
As a writer you really have a lot of ...Dear Dilip:<br /><br />As a writer you really have a lot of power and your writing has a lot of impact. <br /><br />With power comes responsibility to use it wisely, which you mostly do.<br /><br />... Enough of preaching.<br /><br />cheers<br />ChittaChittanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-84581263937613456682009-11-02T23:07:35.871+05:302009-11-02T23:07:35.871+05:30Hi Rahul:
I have found some vacation packages to ...Hi Rahul:<br /><br />I have found some vacation packages to cost quite different if you buy from a travel agent and if you go down to the source. <br /><br />A recent one was a trip to Kerala backwaters. Just look up the prices the travel agents charge for those trips and I can give you the names of the locals (I got a copy of the compiled book that the locals use) who get paid much less.<br /><br />For my trip, I went over more than 10 India based travel agents in the web and got quotes and booked with a Bangalore agent who had close to the best price. I paid a deposit (about 40% of the package).<br /><br />When I arrived in Kochi I paid the rest to the Kochi people. I found out that that is what they get paid. (I.e., 60% of the total cost.)<br /><br />===<br /><br />Another time and another place, I tracked down the local businesses and got the package at close to 50% of the cost of what the travel agents were quoting.<br /><br />===<br /><br />But all of the above involved more than hotels. So Dilip's case does sound a bit excessive.<br /><br />===<br />Anyway, the Tiwari guy is running a business; he should be polite. Just on that account, ...Chittanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-24934947951905660722009-11-02T23:07:04.230+05:302009-11-02T23:07:04.230+05:30Dilip -- thanks for your inside news about Extende...Dilip -- thanks for your inside news about ExtendedStay. I shall never buy from his channel as you have told us the direct channel is always going to be cheaper. <br /><br />You are a "price-insensitive market segment" and such guests will continue going to ExtendedStay for the convenience. Had you been more price-sensitive you would have shopped around more.<br /><br />Now can you also complain to the Government of India regarding the fees to enter the Taj, based on national origin.<br />http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7098370.stm <br />From each according to his ability? Of course Mr. Tiwari takes the medal with his silly response.AmOKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351322682932613136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-52072164674425739702009-11-02T12:42:09.965+05:302009-11-02T12:42:09.965+05:30Dilip,
Of course, you have the right to point out...Dilip,<br /><br />Of course, you have the right to point out to people that they would be better off buying directly from the hotel rather than through ES. I said that in the opening paragraphs of my very first comment. What I don't understand is why you got into a discussion with Mr. Tiwari in the first place. What is there to discuss anyway? That's the only issue that I had and after all the discussion, I still don't understand it. But this has been an overlong thread so please respond in private.<br /><br />With all due respect to the other posters, I am not sure that there is much to be gained by the distinction between "agent" and "seller." A manufacturer of a computer, a car and almost any product you can think of is an "agent" to some extent because his/her own product uses products manufactured by others. <br /><br />In this particular case too, it can be argued that ES is "producing" something because they are "marketing" the product to the customers. But whether one agrees with me or not, arguing about the "right" level of commission is not really fruitful. As I observed before, that's why most economies rely on things like competition from rival sellers and yes, information spread by customers to prevent sellers -- whether they be "sellers" or "agents" -- from charging too much. In the extreme case when there are no effective rivals, regulation kicks in. I don't think regulation is at all warranted here.<br /><br />'Nuff said.Sureshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12270071532015895732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-62564914050080718642009-11-02T10:49:12.030+05:302009-11-02T10:49:12.030+05:30Dear Chitta,
In addition to what Rahul above me h...Dear Chitta,<br /><br />In addition to what Rahul above me has explained ...<br /><br />The agent is welcome to charge whatever margin he wants. If he gets customers (like me) at that margin, good luck to him. I have no problems with that.<br /><br />As a customer, surely I have the freedom to be dissatisfied with any aspect of the agent's service. For example, I would be dissatisfied if he told me he had made a reservation for a particular room, and I found on getting there that it had been made for an inferior room. (This actually happened to me some years ago). <br /><br />Just as I would make a noise in that case, I will make a noise in this case. Exactly as he is free to charge whatever margin he thinks he can, I should have the freedom to tell people I know, "don't go to this agent because he charges a large commission; go directly to the hotel instead". <br /><br />This would apply whether for a hotel booking, or for rice, or for a carpet, or whatever.<br /><br />In Pachmarhi itself, we wanted to buy honey. A local we got to know told us not to buy from shops on the main tourist strip (he named them) because they inflated prices, but suggested that we instead buy the same honey from another shop whose prices were 25% lower. <br /><br />How is that different from what I'm doing here?<br /><br />This applies whether I have a platform (as you assume I do) or not (as the Pachmarhi local presumably did not).<br /><br />This has become longer than I intended.Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-78633392619566256332009-11-02T09:15:39.615+05:302009-11-02T09:15:39.615+05:30Chitta - there is a difference between a seller an...Chitta - there is a difference between a seller and an agent. There is no doubt that the Rs 5100 in the resort invoice does not reflect their actual costs, and there is nothing wrong in that. The resort has its lean season. The carpet seller does get stuck with unsold stock (hence seasonal "clearance sales"). But the agent is not purchasing a holiday from the resort and then re-selling it to you (at the risk of it remaining unsold). He is enabling a transaction between the resort and the customer. For that, he gets a commission, which is supposed to be small: a 100% commission is unheard of.<br /><br />Go to any respectable travel site (hotels.com, cleartrip.com, travelocity.com, etc). Check out a hotel rate and then call the hotel to ask them the rate directly: the difference will be small. Check out an airline price and then look up the price on the airline's own price: the price is usually exactly the same. These sites receive commissions from the seller (hotel, airline) and not from the customer, and sometimes they pass on part of the benefit to the customer, so it is actually cheaper to go via an agent. A few years ago it used to be much cheaper to buy an air ticket from a travel agent than from the airline, basically for that reason. The gap has narrowed, but any air travel agent who charged a 100% commission or even a 10% commission from the <i>passenger</i> would quickly go out of business (several have gone out of business anyway because too many people prefer to buy directly from their preferred airline).Rahul Siddharthanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809667965184094636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-58159323018522853262009-11-01T23:02:47.068+05:302009-11-01T23:02:47.068+05:30Dear Dilip:
You said:
Quote
I simply made it cle...Dear Dilip:<br /><br />You said:<br /><br />Quote<br />I simply made it clear that I was disappointed and disturbed by this, and that I planned to use all available forums to (and I quote) "speak about your charging me double what the Madhai resort charged."<br />Unquote<br /><br />The travel agent did not do anything wrong in charging you twice. <br /><br />Think about it. <br /><br />What you pay for a jeans or a khaki in a department store is may be 2-4 times what the person who makes it gets paid. I don't think one threatens the department store. <br /><br />The carpet one can buy in a carpet store is priced multiple times than what the carpet weaver in the village gets paid. <br /><br />The rice you buy in the market is priced much more than what the farmer gets paid.<br /><br />So your threat is unbecoming of the Dilip I have known from his past writings. (We all slip once in a while and sometimes arrogance creeps in once in a while.)<br /><br />Really, your above threat, is reminiscent of many small time "journalists" in India who cow down others by such threats. <br /><br />Yes, you have a platform with a lot of audience, but threatening to use that to scare a presumed honest businessman is not you.<br /><br />===<br /><br />Having said the above, the response of the Tiwari guy is stupid. He could have made the point about free market without using such stupid words.Chittahttp://www.public.asu.edu/~cbaralnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-82146390553995679382009-11-01T12:21:30.289+05:302009-11-01T12:21:30.289+05:30why dont you simply also provide us with tiwari...why dont you simply also provide us with tiwari's email address as well as that for the resort and also place your point of view/views at mouthshut.com. In addition please let us know about the hemmeroids and bubbles?GBOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-81515087472262748992009-10-30T14:04:53.040+05:302009-10-30T14:04:53.040+05:30the fact that the guy from Extend Stay continues t...the fact that the guy from Extend Stay continues to maintain a beligerant stand and treat customers like they were free loaders is far worse than the commission they had extracted. the fact remains that basic courtsey should have been accorded even to a unhappy customer..nikhilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16917722424320662601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-32457804088577204132009-10-30T00:12:45.715+05:302009-10-30T00:12:45.715+05:30I've come across the expression "Impossib...I've come across the expression "Impossible n'est pas gaulois" (I just <a href="http://www.mage.fst.uha.fr/asterix/citation/proverbe.html" rel="nofollow">confirmed</a> my memory). So it dates back to 50 BC.Rahul Siddharthanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809667965184094636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-3862749807967786522009-10-29T22:34:45.762+05:302009-10-29T22:34:45.762+05:30I don't know who said "Impossible is not ...<i>I don't know who said "Impossible is not French</i>."<br /><br />Unlikely. He's on third. Who's on first.Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-68497875256094732692009-10-29T22:30:58.181+05:302009-10-29T22:30:58.181+05:30To add to the digression, "Never confuse the ...To add to the digression, "Never confuse the unusual with the impossible" also occurs in Wodehouse's <i>A Damsel in Distress</i>, chapter 3 where it is spoken by George Bevan.<br /><br />But I don't know who said "Impossible is not French."Sureshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12270071532015895732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-61312768293776542312009-10-29T21:21:43.554+05:302009-10-29T21:21:43.554+05:30Speaking of impossible, both PGW and Holmes were p...Speaking of impossible, both PGW and Holmes were preceded by someone who said "Impossible is not French" (or more accurately, "Impossible n'est pas français".)<br /><br />Who?<br /><br />Incidentally, he didn't say it. (Speaking of surreal).Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-84367872502743462262009-10-29T21:15:17.825+05:302009-10-29T21:15:17.825+05:30I said earlier: they had no obligation to tell me ...I said earlier: <i>they had no obligation to tell me the commission they had paid the resort</i>.<br /><br />Sorry, my mistake, and I see Rahul has caught it. What I had meant to say was, "They had no obligation to tell me the commission they had kept."<br /><br />Apart from that, I note with delight that this discussion appears to be veering into the surreal, about who said what about which impossibility. Which is sort of appropriate, actually.<br /><br />Which leaves us with just one question then: what did Watson have to say about TV salesmen?Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-33709267283372586722009-10-29T20:36:08.864+05:302009-10-29T20:36:08.864+05:30Uh oh. Psmith's exact words, first uttered in...<a href="http://xkcd.com/386/" rel="nofollow">Uh oh.</a> Psmith's <a href="http://www.online-literature.com/pg-wodehouse/mike-and-psmith/4/" rel="nofollow">exact words</a>, first uttered in school, were "We must distinguish between the unusual and the impossible." He repeated the sentiment in <a href="http://www.classicreader.com/book/2098/9/" rel="nofollow">Psmith Journalist</a> and in Leave it to Psmith (where, as you say, he substituted "unusual" with "improbable"). <br /><br />It is worth noting that he was preceded by the following exchange between Sherlock Holmes and a client:<br />"Well, it is a possible supposition." <br />"You think so, too?"<br />"I did not say a probable one."<br />(The adventure of the noble bachelor)Rahul Siddharthanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809667965184094636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-86617116313334291222009-10-29T19:59:32.874+05:302009-10-29T19:59:32.874+05:30I think both Suresh and Dilip have made their poin...I think both Suresh and Dilip have made their points very clear.<br /><br />But Suresh, what Psmith actually said (and only twice in "Leave it to Psmith")was "Never confuse the impossible with the merely improbable". Once to Ed Cootes, who goggled back at him. (They had both turned up at Blandings posing as Ralston McTodd, only R Eustace got there first)<br />I hope that serves to derail any more serious discussion.<br /><br />J.A.P.J. Alfred Prufrockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16446127543417759542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-61158170480931947692009-10-29T19:46:18.470+05:302009-10-29T19:46:18.470+05:30Suresh does have a point, in that I dont think any...Suresh does have a point, in that I dont think anybody can as a matter of right demand to know how much income or profit is accruing to the other party on a private deal consented to by both.<br /><br />But (possibly getting OT) did we discuss something similar though, in a post about auto meters? ie. why should there be any metering at all and why shouldnt auto transport always be a haggle deal with no baseline, entirely depending on the nego skills of the driver and prospective passenger?<br /><br />Variables like do you know the local language, the place, remoteness of destination, time of day, is it raining, how much luggage you have, your age/gender/fitness levels, carteling btwn providers, <br /><br />and lord knows: driver doesnt like the look of your face, possible religious affiliation, whatnot. <br /><br />Every ride a thrilling Free market adventure. Many of us may experience this to some degree already.<br /><br />Thx,<br />JaiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-46216274091914534722009-10-29T18:09:00.704+05:302009-10-29T18:09:00.704+05:30Dilip,
No problems about your letting people know...Dilip,<br /><br />No problems about your letting people know about your experiences with ES. Why should I? In fact, I said as much in my first comment.<br /><br />I guess I got sidetracked by the arguments about the legality of ES' actions. Sorry about that. But I am angry with you for putting an end to my budding career as a TV salesman.Sureshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12270071532015895732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-84661163617765751952009-10-29T17:57:22.415+05:302009-10-29T17:57:22.415+05:30Dilip - I doubt they paid the resort a commission....Dilip - I doubt <i>they</i> paid the <i>resort</i> a commission. They are providing a service both to you and to the resort, so either you or the resort would pay them a commission (obviously, it was you in this case). According to the consumer protection act, " materially misleads the public concerning the price at which a product or like products or goods or services, have been or are, ordinarily sold or provided" amounts to "unfair trade practices". I am not a lawyer so am not claiming that this particular case falls under that category. There are many other things covered under the act and perhaps this falls under something else. Also, these cases are decided in separate consumer courts, not in the regular courts, and are fast-track and the consumer pays no fee and needs no lawyer. More information is <a href="http://ncdrc.nic.in/" rel="nofollow">here</a> (official government site).Rahul Siddharthanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809667965184094636noreply@blogger.com