tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post839601959321665244..comments2023-11-02T19:19:15.129+05:30Comments on Death Ends Fun: How we view livesDilip D'Souzahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-32984223427955868042008-12-29T05:54:00.000+05:302008-12-29T05:54:00.000+05:30Hundreds of innocent people get massacred. You'd t...<I>Hundreds of innocent people get massacred. <B>You'd think that alone would leave people sick to their stomachs.</B></I><BR/><BR/>Only if one has a high opinion/ expectation of humanity, our modern civilization or our system of governance. Innocents have been dying since the beginning and will continue to die in the future too.<BR/><BR/>So it all comes down to managing one's expectations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-80606283407479764462008-12-18T19:31:00.000+05:302008-12-18T19:31:00.000+05:30Hi Dilip,I'm wondering if you ever did a study wit...Hi Dilip,<BR/>I'm wondering if you ever did a study with CEHAT back in the 90s. I couldn't find your email address anywhere to confirm, so I thought I'd just comment on your blog.<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry that I'm asking such a mundane question in the comments section of such an incredible post :)<BR/><BR/>Do get back to me.<BR/>Love,<BR/>Sana.Sanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15839775868038854715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-39664796214235474612008-12-17T20:00:00.000+05:302008-12-17T20:00:00.000+05:30Please explain your sense of outrage on the above ...<I>Please explain your sense of outrage on the above in a few words atleast,..and then I'll condemn Gujarat</I>.<BR/><BR/>Hundreds of innocent people get massacred. You'd think that alone would leave people sick to their stomachs.<BR/><BR/>You'd think wrong. For there are actually those who will say "First <I>you</I> please say this other thing, <I>then</I> I'll tell you I'm sick to my stomach."<BR/><BR/>This may be one of the few times I got the title of a post exactly right.Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-69503983131758436952008-12-17T09:48:00.000+05:302008-12-17T09:48:00.000+05:30Rahul S,Here's wishing you more energy if you wish...Rahul S,<BR/><BR/>Here's wishing you more energy if you wish to keep up the debate with the Suryas. <BR/><BR/>To keep their bias going they need to do that "if you condemn this and that, we'll think about gujarat" thingy. the idea that some ppl can be revolted by all violence is just not going to map.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Surya,<BR/>if you feel the need for some past hurt to be acknowledged, there is Dilip talking about the civilizational sense of loss or national memory way back on some post.<BR/><BR/>Example: I myself felt the pain, almost tangible, when I read about some Shivling lopped up and carted off centuries ago and built into a mosque in Afghanistan; I have commented on this before. I also expect Dawkins club types wont 'get' that hurt quite the same way.<BR/><BR/>1. You need to dissociate today's Muslims from any such act centuries ago.<BR/><BR/>2. Actual history can be more complicated, eg. shivling itself: turf wars between the ruler of the border province and the afghan kingdom were common. it was kind of the done thing to destroy places of worship back then. i traced this on wikipedia and some other resources.<BR/><BR/>3. pls expose and examine your dearly held beliefs to enquiry on the lines above.<BR/><BR/>thanks,<BR/>JaiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-16520380838595341672008-12-17T02:59:00.000+05:302008-12-17T02:59:00.000+05:30...another psuedo mask torn but refusing to accept......another psuedo mask torn but refusing to accept the fact...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-65637321383840162212008-12-17T02:58:00.000+05:302008-12-17T02:58:00.000+05:30Extract from an interview with IBNLive with Arundh...Extract from an interview with IBNLive with Arundhathi Roy...<BR/><BR/>Question : Is Pakistan is responsible?<BR/><BR/>Ms. Roy: Having closely looked at the Batla house encounter and Parliament attacks, I am not ready to believe what anyone says. I have to see and think for myself. I am not prepared to believe anything. On the other hand, I am prepared to believe anything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-81840797169170939862008-12-17T01:22:00.000+05:302008-12-17T01:22:00.000+05:30Mumbai is a cesspit that gave us gang wars and Daw...Mumbai is a cesspit that gave us gang wars and Dawood Ibrahim. Mumbai doesn't 'feel'. And just a short time ago it was proud of the fact. 'Enough is enough' is another meaningless slogan coined by the shamelessly fame seeking glitterati. It means exactly nothing.<BR/><BR/>So Dilip, taking an innocent life is taking an innocent life, nothing more? Great, lets just go home then. Forget there's a whole religion there whose proponents are so amenable to hatred and violence and they hate EVERYBODY, not just Hindus or India. The most important thing is to be politically correct. That is an oxymoron. How can you be political and correct at the same time? Lets call a spade a spade instead. Something is wrong with this all too common extreme form of Islam and it needs to be stopped.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-14024820630750795922008-12-17T01:19:00.000+05:302008-12-17T01:19:00.000+05:30If Kasab had not been caught alive?...very creativ...If Kasab had not been caught alive?...very creative line of questioning from Manan...appreciated.<BR/><BR/>My question, certainly not creative and highly partisan, if Kasab has struck elsewhere?...the chatterati would have continued as if it were business as usual and unruffledAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-18108295216426137502008-12-17T00:58:00.000+05:302008-12-17T00:58:00.000+05:30Manan, very good point Sir...if Kasab were not ali...Manan, very good point Sir...if Kasab were not alive God knows what pusedo secularists would have come up with. They would have swarmed TV stations with their spin. Ah...Kasab and co have ripped apart their masks. <BR/><BR/>Psuedo Cong has tabled 'draconian' FIA in parliament. This from a party that until 26/11 opposed such measures. Out of genuine concern..no...Kasab and electoral considerations has forced their hand...another mask exposed.<BR/><BR/>If FIA does its work well, many more pseudo masks will be torn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-21658235060343471072008-12-16T23:52:00.000+05:302008-12-16T23:52:00.000+05:30This is a wrong question...its baseless arguing. I...This is a wrong question...its baseless arguing. If you had asked this question just after 2002, n compared it with 1984, 1993 u would say why are we angry now in 2002 and not then...Do u see relative difference? I guess it may not make much sense but thats the truth. People were angry then and thats why they still dont forget it after so many years. Same was case of 1984, 1993, etc.<BR/><BR/>Also, it was a divided opinion, some indians in favor, some against so there was no united voice but there were people who were angry but unfortunately there were people who were happy too which is sick. But yes that is what is more baffling. I am still angry at mute response to killings of kashmiri pandits, may be the response was not united coz it was done for a long time that we got used to it (same as naxalite terror).<BR/><BR/>But 26/11 was something new. It was shocking to people that someone from outside can enter india so easily and spread terror. There are terror acts b4 but this was more symbolic of an outside attack on india. B4 this people were divided in opinion if terrorist were extremist from india or from outside and all dat crap. This was more clear - don't get it wrong but if kasab was not captured alive and there was no clear picture, the outrage would have been less, coz there would have been pseudo-secularists with political agendas ready to put doubt that were terrorist from outside or inside or muslims or hindu and stuff. I think masterminds who planned the attack never imagined somebody would be caught alive. They thought they would get away coz of lack of clear evidence but thanks to our brave soldiers (army, NSF, police) we not only reduced the damage but caught one alive.<BR/><BR/>Do remember if kasab was not alive, we would be still in debate mode as to who did it and wat was the motive and wats right and wats wrong and all that crap, which is wat happened before in all incidents you point out.<BR/><BR/>I don't understand one thing - why people keep referring to past events. No i am not saying we should forget it, I am saying we should remember them as a lesson. "Who did what" theory will only give rise to more events like this. The lesson is to make sure this thing never repeat. Oppose all kind of extremism with one yardstick. Thats the key. Dont look at it as "It does not concern me" coz you may be next in line...Mananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01943340078213238104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-60395187206934142202008-12-16T22:46:00.000+05:302008-12-16T22:46:00.000+05:30As much as it sounds ironical, I think we as a peo...As much as it sounds ironical, I think we as a people feel safer protesting against the terrorists (who are outsiders in this case) than against a group/party/leader who is one of us. <BR/><BR/>Personally speaking, the events in 2002 and 2008 were bewildering, but what made it worse was that you had well educated people who thought it was fine to defend their actions in those cases.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-4530373176719272862008-12-16T21:28:00.000+05:302008-12-16T21:28:00.000+05:30Rahul,are you and you're acolytes willing to conde...Rahul,are you and you're acolytes willing to condemn the terror unleashed by Islam over the centuries, that which subjected Hindus to tax, that perpertrated by the Portuguese in Goa, the terror that foreigners subjected us thro rape and plunder.Are you?<BR/><BR/>Please explain your sense of outrage on the above in a few words atleast,..and then I'll condemn Gujarat.<BR/><BR/>Be brave enough to open your eyes and see the whole picture. Not just the parts that you can critique easily.<BR/><BR/>--KRKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-83645814459791441572008-12-16T21:10:00.000+05:302008-12-16T21:10:00.000+05:30Hi Dilip,I've been thinking on the same lines, but...Hi Dilip,<BR/><BR/>I've been thinking on the same lines, but not just on the lines of past pogroms. I think as a people, we tolerate a lot of crap from our government. We see potholed roads, ****all government schools, a redundant bureaucracy and we just lie back and tolerate it. <BR/>I think everyone has witnessed at least one friend/relative make that arrogant speech about they would do if they were PM. And yet, how many of those people have contributed even 50 bucks to an NGO that educates slum kids, builds schools, promotes liberties etc. Its become a very Indian thing to diagnose what's wrong with India and then let someone else find the cure. There's no sense of ownership among citizens anymore. Thats explains we spit, urinate and dump our litter on roads.<BR/>And in all this complacency, the politicians, the terrorists, the corrupt have have had their way. <BR/>If you look at the recent spate of terror attacks, their targets grew progressively richer. What began with the death of everyday nameless citizens ended with the death of corporate honchos. And I guess that it finally became too close for comofort. You can send your kids to a private school, bribe the bureaucracy, tackle the potholes with yor Mercedes suspension, hire security guards and look down your nose at Sarojini Nagar shoppers but when its the Taj being bombed, it hits you that no matter what you could be next. Maybe that's what different.<BR/>ArchanaArchanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05638461042749958962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-59964632849196664072008-12-16T19:26:00.000+05:302008-12-16T19:26:00.000+05:30Surya: your choice of words makes it clear that yo...Surya: your choice of words makes it clear that you think all hindus condemn riots, while only "right minded" Muslims do. So are you, here and now, without equivocation, willing to condemn the massacre of Muslims in Gujarat in 2002?<BR/><BR/>No, I didn't think so.Rahul Siddharthanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809667965184094636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-41937438192796085682008-12-16T16:48:00.000+05:302008-12-16T16:48:00.000+05:30If I'm kicked out of London, I'll head to New York...If I'm kicked out of London, I'll head to New York. If kicked out of New York, I'll head to Bombay. If kicked out of Bombay, I'll head to Chennai. If kicked out of Chennai, I'll head to Cuddalore..<BR/><BR/>Now if I'm kicked out of Cuddalore..where do I go?.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-45878788742387449852008-12-16T16:18:00.000+05:302008-12-16T16:18:00.000+05:30By asking India to follow other countries in their...By asking India to follow other countries in their efforts ( mind you there is no guarantee that it will work but it is still worth trying) to tackle terror, Dilip may have just, only just, shown us the path to Universalism that goes thro nationalism.<BR/><BR/>After all we need to keep our house in order before we can even ask others to do the same<BR/><BR/>I'm putting my foot firmly on the idea that we should start with 26/11 and carefully unwind as far as possible backwards..all the while carrying out the painful dialogue for national reconciliation.<BR/><BR/>We need to reinvent ourselves, change the way we do poitics, the way we do business with each other and the way we do business with government.<BR/><BR/>For this to happen Indian National Congress should recapture the spirit of 30s and 40s. We have done it before guys and we can do it again. It's in our DNA.<BR/><BR/>I can see a common thread in all the postings against this topic.<BR/>This , my dear freinds, is an example of the dialogue, albeit painful, that we should have on a bigger scale.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-31973477892912545752008-12-16T16:11:00.000+05:302008-12-16T16:11:00.000+05:30My 2 paisas worth. Thoughts about possible reasons...My 2 paisas worth. Thoughts about possible reasons for why we don't condemnn previous attacks in the same vein as 26/11.<BR/><BR/>1. They're internal problems. We treat them differently compared to external ones. Historically, Pakistan has always been the enemy so it's easy to condemn them, even if their attacks result in fewer deaths. Analysing internal problems means pointing fingers at ourselves, and no one (read the ignorant) wants to do that. It's too tiresome and involves too much introspection (at least for our leaders). It's so much easier to advcate bombing a terrorist camp in PoK.<BR/><BR/>2. Events like Godhra were, to many people, justifiable. There are always people from various religions who will find an excuse to justify the murder of people from a particular communtiy. Genocide always has a defender.<BR/><BR/>3. Simmering religious tension in Godhra. With it being the outburst of a long continuing hatred between two communities (you can say it was waiting to happen), it just lacked the shock factor. 26/11on the other hand was unprecedented. We thought we were safe at C.S.T and the Taj, so being attacked was a shock.<BR/><BR/>4. We're too used to being killed by our own. No one talks about the number of people killed by Naxals. We take it for granted. Not so for external attacks. Frequency of attack is directly proportional to the intensity of reaction by the masses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-88297849237906633902008-12-16T16:07:00.000+05:302008-12-16T16:07:00.000+05:30By the way, I'd like only to point out that it can...By the way, I'd like only to point out that it can't be "record numbers" at the <I>Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi</I> shows, because me and my extended family (Chunnu, Munnu and Pappu included) are yet to go see it. It's when we get off our collective butts and turn up that the numbers will <I>really</I> hit the roof.<BR/><BR/>Though I will say this, speaking of Billo Barber: I just returned from the barber. I went because my son's teacher, Abha, told the (long-haired) males of his class that they had better get their hair cut by next Monday. I decided to get mine cut too. <BR/><BR/>Though while we were getting our hair cut, it struck me: if Abha had sent the barber to our house, we could have shot the next Bollywood blockbuster: <I>Abha Ne Bhej Di Barber</I>.Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-53806836442329899072008-12-16T12:12:00.000+05:302008-12-16T12:12:00.000+05:30Trying to make sense of a situation like this is l...<I>Trying to make sense of a situation like this is like trying to calm a gale by shouting at it</I>.<BR/><BR/>I couldn't agree more, ??!. But what choice do we have? After all, other countries have found the wherewithal to tackle their own criminals; therefore maybe a loud enough demand for justice will give us the same in India. Or we can hope.<BR/><BR/>Anu, I keep the faith that after this terror, more of us will come to see things like you do.Dilip D'Souzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221707482541503243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-20887199454141711422008-12-16T11:59:00.000+05:302008-12-16T11:59:00.000+05:30Oh, I get clarified. Don't worry, you too can. Try...Oh, I get clarified. Don't worry, you too can. Try harder. Or clearer. Clarity, as they say, has a clear bias.Niluhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05054901897580784793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-49204150709931605482008-12-16T11:08:00.000+05:302008-12-16T11:08:00.000+05:30nilu, what clarifiction you got from d3?? did you ...nilu, what clarifiction you got from d3?? did you noticed, he never gives clarification, he always only complicates every issue!!<BR/><BR/>he is also big impersonnator. ohtee, jai-chorakoot, indian, if you see they are all made by him.<BR/><BR/>i agree, why to go for 1984? did kasab tell about 1984??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-4399488138886485852008-12-16T09:55:00.000+05:302008-12-16T09:55:00.000+05:30Let's say I kill your wife and children tomorrow. ...Let's say I kill your wife and children tomorrow. You would still want to start from 1984, wouldn't you. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the clarification.Niluhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05054901897580784793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-67881126701088102682008-12-16T00:16:00.000+05:302008-12-16T00:16:00.000+05:30Just wanted to say that I am angry -- both about w...Just wanted to say that I am angry -- both about what happened in Bombay recently -- and the massacre in Gujarat. I agree with you completely. There ought to be more anger about such a state-sponsored pogrom. I am shocked at some of the statements that have come out of people's mouths. I sincerely hope that people realize that the loss of a human life is the loss of a human life whether at the hands of Muslim terrorists or rampaging mobs.Anuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704853130490328471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-89898325622115128382008-12-16T00:14:00.000+05:302008-12-16T00:14:00.000+05:30Were all those innocents who were killed across Gu...<I>Were all those innocents who were killed across Gujarat really some "them" that pulled a trigger in Godhra?</I><BR/> Of course not. But this is not about rationality, or sense. This has long (and perhaps, always) been about emotions and all its favourite hangers-on - prejudice, vengeance, idiocy.<BR/><BR/>Trying to make sense of a situation like this is like trying to calm a gale by shouting at it.<BR/><BR/>*****************<BR/>Clarifying my earlier comment. The internal nature of the earlier episodes (and what are they except episodes in this long-standing tragic series) by itself automatically removed the possibility of a unified condemnation. Because they were obviously supported by a slice of the country, and those slices would not condemn what they did. <BR/><BR/>This, however, allows the whole to vent at an external agent. There are no factions here, because it affected people of all the different segments.<BR/><BR/>It's that simple. In all the previous times, one community or the other was specifically targetted. So the ones that did the targetting did not condemn. In this, everyone was targetted, and so everyone's reacting.??!https://www.blogger.com/profile/03791417518093723373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070362.post-85294264976967895322008-12-16T00:05:00.000+05:302008-12-16T00:05:00.000+05:30My attempt at an answer is here.My attempt at an answer is <A HREF="http://horadecubitus.blogspot.com/2008/12/horror.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Rahul Siddharthanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04809667965184094636noreply@blogger.com