July 19, 2005

Not so inept

This piece was prompted by something I read on a friend's blog (you know who you are) today, and is adapted from something I wrote some years ago. Sometimes I feel like these thoughts must go out, every now and then.

But read on...

***

Among the books I own is a smartly produced paperback that often gets double-takes from friends. "Why do you have this?" they ask in wonder. I keep it as evidence of a quiet, but remarkably successful campaign.

The book is called Sir Manohar Joshi, and is about the Shiv Sena politician who became Maharashtra's Chief Minister in 1995. It's written by an old friend of Joshi's, Dr Vijay Dhavale of Ottawa, Canada. The "editing and English transliteration" is by a Dr Ramesh Waghmare. It was published in February 1997.

Being frank, this is not literature. But it is eloquent about Joshi's achievements, and extols his soft-spoken virtues. (The "Sir" is a reference to Joshi's past as a teacher). Which is just fine; what are old friends for anyway?

For convenient versions of history, it would seem. On page 206, in a chapter titled "Cricket", I found this paragraph:

    After the heinous bomb blasts in Mumbai by some agents of the underworld in 1993, the Pakistani cricket team was scheduled to play a game in the city. When later evidence proved that the saboteurs were aided by Pakistan's International Security Intelligence [sic], an incensed [Shiv Sena chief Bal] Thackeray issued a call to cancel the game. Some newspapers argued that it was unfair to penalize the players and fans who were looking forward to see the traditionally close encounters between the two teams. Manohar Joshi, though himself seething with fury at the blatant attempt by the neighbouring country to destabilize India's industrial hub, thought that the game should go on. He tried to mediate the disagreement. He was on the verge of succeeding when some youngsters destroyed the pitch. The match had to be abandoned.

Anything unusual there? Try this: the bomb blasts the writer refers to happened in March 1993. And when did "some youngsters" destroy the pitch at Bombay's Wankhede Stadium, forcing a scheduled match with Pakistan to be abandoned?

October 1991.

Nothing unusual, except that Dr Dhavale wants you to believe that the bomb blasts led to the pitch vandalisation that happened one-and-a-half years earlier. Nothing unusual, except that it's an inept lie.

Encouraged by this, I searched through "Sir Manohar Joshi" for references to the Bombay riots of 1992-93. Hard, but I found one on page 99. Here it is:

    The bomb blast at the Mumbai Stock Exchange and some other prominent buildings in early 1993 not only took several lives, it turned the politics of the state upside down. The news that the prime suspects were Ibrahim Dawood [sic] and his gang, many of whom had fled to destinations outside India, touched off communal riots in several parts of the metropolis. Chief Minister Sudhakarrao Naik was judged to have failed to control them and Prime Minister Rao asked Sharad Pawar to take over the reins of power from Naik. ... Pawar became Chief Minister of Maharashtra in March 1993.

Anything unusual there? Try this: the bomb blasts happened, as I mentioned, in March 1993. And when did those riots happen?

December 1992 and January 1993.

What's more, Pawar did not become CM as a consequence of the bombs as the paragraph implies; he was already CM when they went off on March 12.

Nothing unusual, except that Dr Dhavale wants you to believe that the bomb blasts "touched off" the riots that happened three months earlier. Nothing unusual, except it's another inept lie.

So why would Dr Dhavale spread such lies? Why did English transliterator Dr Waghmare not see fit to correct them? Why did Sir Joshi himself not correct them?

Simple: the lies work well to cover up the Shiv Sena's own misdeeds.

After all, it was not just "some youngsters" who dug up that cricket pitch in 1991, it was a gang of Shiv Sena activists. As for the riots, here's Justice BN Srikrishna, writing of them after his five-year inquiry in the constant presence of Sena lawyers:

    [L]arge scale rioting and violence was ... taken over by Shiv Sena and its leaders who continued to whip up communal frenzy by their statements and acts and writing and directives issued by the Shiv Sena Pramukh Bal Thackeray.

What's more, Justice Srikrishna wrote this about the bomb blasts:

    One common link between the riots ... and bomb blasts of 12th March 1993 appears to be that the former appear to have been a causative factor for the latter. ... [T]he serial bomb blasts were a reaction to the totality of events at Ayodhya and Bombay in December 1992 and January 1993.

So how do you evade censure for your vandalization and rioting and killing? Easy: you begin diligently spreading the impression that the bomb blasts pushed you into them. Sure, they are crimes, but you were only retaliating, see? Never mind the little detail that you committed your crimes before the blasts. Months and years before. Never mind, because you know that if you tell the lie often enough, it becomes the truth. Becomes the accepted version of history in people's minds.

And it's worked beautifully. I've lost count of the number of people who have written to me in this vein, and I quote: "While I am in no way a supporter of the Bombay riots ... you should realise these are emotional reactions to the bomb explosion carried out by misguided Muslims." Pavan Verma, in his recent Being Indian, writes of how the 1993 blasts "triggered" the riots. And my blogging friend repeats the same thing.

All because the likes of Dr Dhavale got to work -- only three years after the blasts! -- quietly turning history upside down. Not so inept after all.

50 comments:

?! said...

Here is some evidence that we ARE measuring up to the USA in our own ways : Michael Moore's exposition of how Rove et al deftly manipulated the American public in "Dude, where's my country". It details how the spindoctors led the (seemingly cretinously creduluous) janta to think that Saddam had a direct hand in 9/11 and that Osama and Saddam were co-conspirators ...Actually, I think it's been an age old and world wide phenomenon,not just Hitler's anti Jew program, but right up to the gent who decided to use spin to "cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of war"

Anirudh said...

Enlightening.

Anonymous said...
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Rabin said...

Incredible how things can be twisted by people to suit their needs. And curious how most taunts are anonymous.

Dilip D'Souza said...

R, what's also incredible, or maybe not, is how the taunters masterfully evade the real issue: the diligent campaign to turn that history upside down. Because for that, they have no answers.

Sriram said...

I grew up in Tamil Nadu, not in Mumbai. So, Dilip, may be you can help me out on another similar event.

Tamil Nadu has always been a state where BJP/RSS found it hard to get a foothold. There had never been any religious riots that I can remember, especially against Muslims. The state has been ruled for over half a century by Dravidian parties that are openly against the Hindu religion and friendly with the minorities.

Still, there were bomb blasts in Coimbatore (in 1997, I think).

Could you enlighten us on what happened there? Were there any preceding "justifying provocations" that I might have missed?

Eswaran B said...

Sriram,

The Coimbatore blasts happened in Feb 14(easy date to remember, see?), 1998. It was found later to be done by Al-Ummah, and the reason given was Ayodhya, Mumbai riots etc. But then, I think most TN people vehemently opposed the Ayodhya issue and the bombay riots.

Charu said...

Sriram, despite growing up in TN, you have missed preceding "justifying provocations" - I did remember them but searched for exact details and here is what I found -

"The organisation AL Umma,organisation, headed by S.A. Basha, was out "to wreak vengeance" for the death of 18 Muslims killed in police firing and related incidents on November 30 and December 1, 1997, following the murder of a traffic constable, R. Selvaraj, by three Al-Umma members in Coimbatore." you can read more in this frontline report- http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1712/17120490.htm

Isn't it also incredible that when there is one uncomfortable question raised by the author you cannot answer, you raise another, vaguely related but irrlevant question.

Anonymous said...

Bloody Hell !

-
Z

K said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
k said...

Sriram,
Still, there were bomb blasts in Coimbatore (in 1997, I think).

Could you enlighten us on what happened there? Were there any preceding "justifying provocations" that I might have missed?


There's an inherent assumption of cause and effect in here.

There's an catalog of 200 riots going back to 1700s - think the book was called 'Riots and wrongs' by a decorated IPS officer. Has listing of riots between Hindu-Muslims, Hindu-Christians, Christian-Muslims, Muslims-Parsis (surprise happened in Mumbai over about 100 years before BJP or RSS or Hindu Mahasabha came into being) ... you get the idea.

Only a fool will try to connect all the dots and come up with a grand know it all theory based on a book that no one's heard about. Obiviously that book was hack job to brown nose his political master.

As R says - Incredible how things can be twisted by people to suit their needs.

Sriram said...

Charu, the reason I raised this question is that violence happens in cycles. If you attempt to justify (or explain) even one act of violence by pointing out what preceded it, you will find yourself walking that chain forever.

It doesn't matter if the blasts preceded the riots. They are both wrong. Period. End of story.

Dilip D'Souza said...

OK, anonymouser or k (though do remember I know who you are): those "questions."

In 1993, my father was summoned by Justice Srikrishna to appear before the inquiry. He had nothing else to do with the inquiry, and as far as I know, Justice Srikrishna did not use his testimony in his report.

I had nothing to do with the Srikrishna inquiry, apart from sitting in court many times watching the proceedings.

That's the extent of our respective involvements in the inquiry.

But those who want to evade the questions, who want to make insinuations, will find conspiracies and suspicion in even this much. To them, I say: go right ahead.

But do make an attempt to explain the subject of this post, the deliberate inversion of history by the Shiv Sena. May I expect that? Roll your eyes some more, but may I expect that?

Sriram, the Dravidian parties are "openly against the Hindu religion"? What a remarkable assertion.

And you ask for the "preceding justifying provocations", but when Charu finds those (thank you Charu for digging up what I was about to), you tell her "If you attempt to justify (or explain) even one act of violence by pointing out what preceded it, you will find yourself walking that chain forever"! I don't get it.

But maybe you too will explain what the Dravidian parties' apparent animus, or the Coimbatore cause and effect, has to do with the inversion of history this post speaks about. Give it a shot?

phucker said...

This would be a cause for worry if the people who don't make up "The Choir" being preached to started believing it. Other than Shiv Sena fanboys, who else is going to pick up a copy of this rubbish? I didn't even know it existed, and I'm sure many other people don't know about it either. And those who do know about it, are those directly involved with the Shiv Sena. There is never any point arguing the Hindu/Muslim fighting because eventually you will reach the point where somebody will say "Babar started it!", which of course will be followed by "Mohammad started it!". We all know the Shiv Sena and most of the BJP are a bunch of gangsters, and they're basically a counter to dear 'ol Dawood.

Dilip D'Souza said...

TTG, but that's just the point. PEople who are decidedly NOT part of the choir believe the bomb blasts set off the riots. I mentioned three instances -- a note I once got from a reader, a blogger friend and Pavan Varma, a senior IAS officer and widely read author. There are many others.

On your other point, I think you're right -- it will end up with "Babar started it" or some such. A fool's game.

Nikhil said...

Dilip
I am curious where Mr Pavan Verma got his information from. Did he read the book in question? If one reads the book brought out by Times (not sure) - When Bombay burned- edited by Dileep PAdgaonkar- one can place the entire chronology of events correctly as stated. The book is in my house in Bombay. There may be arguements as to cause and reaction. One is glad that there was no rioting after the blasts. But apart from the book mentioned above there is no other literature on the riots and blasts ( I have not read Black Friday- but again I would rather believe the book stated earlier. Have you read that book? Maybe will look through it again when I go back to Bombay next time.

Dilip D'Souza said...

Nikhil, I have a copy of that book too, and also "The People's Verdict", the excellent report of the unofficial inquiry into the riots. There are some other smaller reports too.

I'm sure PAvan Varma has read one or the other of those. The point is that the Sena propaganda has been so steady and insidious that a lot of people have simply internalised that lie. Which is what they set out to achieve, of course.

k said...
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Venu Gopal Rao said...
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Anonymous said...
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Dilip D'Souza said...

You see, Charu and whoever else, it's what I said earlier here: But those who want to evade the questions, who want to make insinuations, will find conspiracies and suspicion in even this much.

And that's what they do. This post is about a specific lie deliberately spread by the Sena and its fans; confronted with that, they must flail away in every direction, string together even more lies and conspiracies and insinuations, even pretend to be several people to lend apparent weight to the insinuation.

But the fact remains: they lie. As in this "Sir Manohar Joshi" book. And an ideology that needs to lie and insinuate is one that needs no respect either.

Nakulan said...
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?! said...

See how quickly the attack turns from the ideas espoused by the gent DD to the gent himself, and his pa. Let us assume that ALL that is alleged by the ppl IS true. The Lord knows that there are ENOUGh ppl who do wish to /cannot live by the ideals they preach. Does that necessarily invalidate their ideas? More succinctly, WHAT IS THE REPLY to the questions raised by DD ( son of fat cat and clost capitalist lap dog though he may be??)

Anonymous said...
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Neela said...

Dilip

A very courageous post. Takes guts to remind people what the truth is, even if that truth goes against propoganda by a violent party.

n!

Dilip D'Souza said...

All right, I've had enough. There is now a comment policy in place.

k said...

So the posts exposing JB D'Souza has been removed.. the "questions" will have to stay for another day I guess.

uma said...

good for you, dilip.

Nakulan said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Nikhil said...

Back to PAvan Verma's book, one of the bloggers is right when he says that nobody outside the Sena fold would have even heard of this book on Sir(sic) Manohar Joshi. I follow Indian English writing and even I have not heard of this book. If anybody followed authoritative sources as the ones I mentioned earlier, he would have placed the events in a proper chronology. Which is what brings up the earlier question - Are there any authoritative sources that have got the chronology of events wrong. Leave aside the SriKrishna report -there are so many arguements for and against it that it has become controversial, but I would rate the Times account as quite authentic. Other than that , really have not heard of any other account

Dilip D'Souza said...

Nikhil,

It's not that Pavan Varma read this book to get his impression. The point is, there has been a subtle, insidious campaign over the years to twist the chronology around. For example, it's not even that "Sir Manohar Joshi" explicitly says, "The blasts preceded the riots" -- it's that it's put into a host of other details that together mean that much.

I don't know how Varma got his impression. I don't know how so many of my correspondents got that impression. But I do know that a LOT of people today say the blasts set off the riots. And when I found this book, I got some sense of how that impression has gained ground.

k said...

Nakulan,

New policy in effect.. head-nodders only respond. Any posts condemning the political mentors of JB D'Souza will be promptly removed....
so will this post :-(

k said...

By the way, if you haven't figured it out, I have no life. That is why I spend all of my time anonymously writing horribly offensive things about Dilip. I also have a small penis.

k said...

Hi k with 2",

Congratulations, that's 1.5" more than what Vibha's used to ;-)

harini calamur said...

hello:)
i for one for a long time believed that there were two sets of riots, one pre and one post the blast. Obviously, i was wrong!

I guess that it is also the fact that if you state a lie as many times as possible, convincingly - it becomes the truth.
and most fascist parties across the board use this to subvert the process.
It has happened over and over again. The German people were 'convinced' that the Jewish people ate little German babies.
The Americans were convinced that the Reds were going to take over.
Half of Hindudom is convinced that Lord Ram was born in Ayodhya (UP) - -why not Ayotteya, Thailand, but that's a separate argument.
Most Mumbaikars are convinced that the riots followed the blast.
The Americans are convinced the Iraq was behind 9/11.
Question is how can this kind of brainwashing be countered on a larger scale. End of the day the blogging community is only so large - how do you dispel these 'untruths' from popular perception. Because, that's really what needs to be addressed.

arZan said...

a very incisive analysis and research.

sadly the bullshit comments later mar the value of the original post.

Cant they be deleted ??

k said...

harini:
>>Half of Hindudom is convinced that Lord Ram was born in Ayodhya (UP) - -why not Ayotteya, Thailand, but that's a separate argument

100% of "Christandom" is convinced of 'immaculate conception' - a fact yet to be scientifically proved.
Bloggers should take up that myth too. Or perhaps, we should give a little elbow room to people holding different beliefs and faiths.


arzan: Dilip's story has more holes than the proverbial swiss cheese and was had for lunch couple months ago... see:
sandeepweb

Dilip D'Souza said...

Arzan, this post is about an insidious lie. That's it. I'm happy to be eaten for lunch or anything else, but I am yet to be shown the holes in what this post is about. What is the explanation for the lie in that book, the lie that so many people actually now believe is the truth? (That the bomb blasts caused the riots).

Remember just that much and ignore the other stuff. It's mere handwaving.

Anonymous said...

>>but I am yet to be shown the holes in what this post is about

Gee Dilip, wonder why you deleted some of the earlier posts in this thread? Or stop responding at Sandeepweb?

Dilip D'Souza said...

Bluffs, you see, need to be called. Arzan or whoever else is reading this, you will recall I stated: but I am yet to be shown the holes in what this post is about.

In response, we read this: Gee Dilip, wonder why you deleted some of the earlier posts in this thread?

Implying thereby, there was some discussion of the holes in what this post was about in those comments, and I deleted them.

Well, judge for yourself. Here is every deleted comment from this thread for you, gathered together. Do these amount to a rebuttal of my post, of the fact that there has been this lie spread about the bomb blasts causing the riots? Or do they amount to just so much mud-flinging and obfuscation?

But here's one thing you can be positive about: you're going to see more handwaving in response to this. Not a single effort to address the lie. That's the way it goes with anonymouses. So don't ask them questions, Arzan or whoever else. Because only then, they won't lie.

---

Posted by Anonymous at 7/19/2005 07:27:47 PM:
Hmm.. Sri Krishna commission. Daddy D'Souza testified there ain't it
Dilip? Of course he didn't have time or inclination to to take on the
rioters at Bhagalpur, Neville, Delhi, Ahmedabad, Bhiwandi, Jogeshwari,
Ranchi etc..

Another good book would be the one recently released "Meri Yaden, Meri
Bhool" former Bihar chief minister Satyendra Narayan Sinha.

---

Posted by K at 7/20/2005 12:26:26 AM
Hey R... I'm K... no longer anonymous - happy?[rolleyes]

/the diligent campaign to turn that history upside down. /
HRD Minister Arjun Singh's at it - don't worry about it.

/Because for that, they have no answers/
Dilip - have any answers to the questions being raised for over 3 years
or so about your and your daddy's involvement in Sri Krishna commission
findings?
Been asked - never answered? One wonders why?

---

Posted by k at 7/21/2005 02:48:26 AM
/my father was summoned by Justice Srikrishna to appear before the
inquiry. He had nothing else to do with the inquiry, and as far as I know,/
J B D'Souza wasn't "summoned" but he literally gatecrashed into it using
his political clout from his prior years as state chief secretary - i.e.
the top most "babu" of Mahasharstra Govt. In words of your pal Jyoti
Punwani in Telegraph, this J B D'Souza "led a group of activists" to see
CM during that episode.

/Justice Srikrishna did not use his testimony in his report./
Pity your dozen articles to pump the cause didn't help. Evidently
mediocrity bundled with shallow ideas didn't go far.

As for rest of rants on riots (though you may think it's by me - dosen't
matter) :
http://www.sandeepweb.com/2004/08/16/indebted-to-dilip-dsouza/
and by Varsha Bhosle too (archived at)
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0902/165.html

Slowly day Dilip that you had to dig up a book by a no name? Running out
of ideas, not that you had any original in first place.

-k

---

Posted by Venu Gopal Rao at 7/21/2005 03:23:04 AM
Interesting discussion on sandeepweb site k. D'Souza Sr running a
housing colony scheme for some politicans! This D'Souza Sr seems to be a
colourful character hitting on those wimmen folks in slum like Dilip
doing it at Mardis Gras.

And we have Association for India Development (AID) candle holder taking
up the a cause of these slums being demolished! Were convenient indeed.

---

Posted by Anonymous at 7/21/2005 06:43:49 AM

Hi!

I am Dhanoosh, a student volunteer of AID-INDIA in Atlanta. Just a few days ago our Faculty Advisor very bravely stood up and presented the Petition signed by all those people - protesting the demolition of the slums in Mumbai. My Faculty Advisor (Govindaraj, who is an Associate professsor, not a Professor as the news release said) is in serious trouble for doing that, and he is likely to remain Associate Professor until he retires.

Now I find that Dilip, whom I have always admired for his heroic stance and his awesome writing, is actually associated with the cold capitalists and their running dogs in the Maharashtra government, the very people who destroyed all those homes and tossed those poor people on the street.

Why, Dilip? Why couldn't you stop your fat daddy from doing this? Were you too chicken to go stop the bulldozers, or to tell your dad to stop them?

I am so disgusted to read of this. Dilip, so why did you do it? You wanted to see all those poor women getting wet in the rain trying to protect their children from the monsoon? Or - like you wrote before, you wanted to see all the women "going" in the early morning hours? Are you some kind of damned sicko pervert or what?

I better stop now, because I am getting really angry. I am beginning to believe all those reports about the nature of the guys who are really behind AID-INDIA too. You guys are using us poor students who thought we were spending our scarce free time in a good cause.

Have you any idea what its like at a major research university, Dilip? I heard you had gone to some po-dunk dump for rich brats in the northeast. Ooooo! We have to WORK, Dilip, something you and your filthy rich Dad will never understand.

---

Posted by Nakulan at 7/21/2005 11:58:09 AM

I agree with you Dhanoosh. I too feel very angry becuase like you I was used by AID folks. It turned out that they are all wealthy folks interested only in themselves.

While we struggled to get admission in schools, begged for money to pay tuition fees (I literally did that), borrowed food from neighbours, lived in houses of one relative or the other till they kicked us out, in portions of houses until the landlord kicked us out until his patience with us for defaulting repeatedly on rent ran out, once in a hut for a few months, and in general struggled to make it, these rich kids like Dilip D'Souza were enjoying themselves living in mansions and enjoying life at our cost.

I must admit that I no longer have to struggle for a living though many of my relatives still do. My relative comfort is due to globalization. I have understood what socialism is from up close and I know that bureau-RATS like J.B. D'Souza were behind our poverty.

IAS officers like J.B. D'Souza literally made our lives miserable.

What makes me furious is that RICH people like him comment on us poverty stricken people. He is a disgusting character. I am not surprised that he is hand in glove with politicians minting money and exploiting the poor people.

BTW, for all his support for Communists, Dilip D'Souza lived in America and has saved up his dollars. Enough to retire back in India.

---

Posted by Anonymous at 7/21/2005 05:32:16 PM

Nakulan: Dhanoosh here.

"BTW, for all his support for Communists, Dilip D'Souza lived in America and has saved up his dollars. Enough to retire back in India."

Really? I thought he just came over here to enjoy 5 years of however long it took him to get an M.S. in some party school, ON HIS POPPA's MONEY. Sorry! I mean, the money skimmed by his poppa through all these deals where he and his fat-cat buddies ripped off the PEOPLE of India, by giving up public land to the capitalist pigs so they could bulldoze the meager huts on 6 ft land that was the only home these people had.

Someone here (presumably Dilip himself) complains that we are deflecting attention from the issue. Sorry, Dilip if I embarassed you by inadvertently exposing your duplicity, but I just want honest answers. HOW can someone who claims to feel so deeply for poor people, DO this? How can you sleep at night (or at midday, since you don't actually do any work) KNOWING that all you had to do was to stop your Poppa from destroying these people? How can you listen to the rain pattering down on your airconditioner, knowing that it is also soaking those poor children shivering in the mud of what used to be their only shelter?

And if you're arguing that you had nothing to do with your Poppa's crimes, well, nice try there. Elsewhere I have read that YOU WRITE ARTICLES TO LOBBY FOR YOUR POPPA's SCAMS!!!

I don't know what's all this about "history being turned upside down" but Dilip, honestly now, aren't you responsible for turning people's shelters upside down? And then pose as some sort of Champion of The People?

Is that disgusting or what, Dilip?

---
Posted by Nakulan to Death Ends Fun at 7/22/2005 01:39:54 PM

Oh dear, the truth hurts, doesn't it? For those who missed it, here is what I pointed out in my post that Dilip D'Souza removed. I am adding a few more points.

1) I lived in poverty as do my relatives. We piled on with one relative or other until they kicked us out, or lived in portions, and for one stretch, even in a hut.

2) For education, water, power connection, and even food, we struggled to get by. We kept borrowing food from neighbours. My mother would starve so we could eat.

3) Bureau-RATS were responsible for this. They lived in mansions while we struggled to live.

4) GLOBALIZATION rescued me from poverty. My relatives are still poor, but at least I am able to help them.

5) It is dishonest of Dilip D'Souza to oppose globalization, but having gone to America and worked there and saved dollars. This is a perverse attitude.

6) JB D'Souza's job as CEO on behalf of his political masters is a shameful example of the corrupt neta-babu nexus. They pass laws to keep us in suffering while minting money out of our suffering.

7) I was fooled by AID too. They are crooked people.

8) Economically, Communism is one sadistic idea that keeps people in poverty while the bureauRATS and politicians have it good.

9) Dilip D'Souza must stop evading the issue - why did you work in America if you want to prevent others from benefitting from globalization and liberalization?

10) ONLY YOU RICH PEOPLE TALK ABOUT US POOR PEOPLE. Enough is enough. If you are a bureauRAT's son, shut up and don't harass us anymore. I had enough harassment from your father and his types. I am NOT going to let you harass me anymore, you lowlife loser.

11) Notice that all Communists are RICH or POWERFUL - N.Ram, J.B.D'Souza, Arundhati Roy, Prannoy Roy, etc. They are people who want to keep us in poverty. Trust me, I have no desire to go back into poverty and won't let you decide for me.

12) Don't be dishonest and suppress freedom of expression. I have violated no policy. My points are legitimate.

13) One last point - you may have had the good fortune of being an IAS officer's son and avoiding life in poverty, but it is clear that you have a low IQ and cannot figure out that globalization did people like me a world of good. When it comes to brain power, you Communists are INFERIOR.

k said...

Cool Dilip, where's my post listing all the other riots listed as Episode C, Episode D.. reponse to Ken in other thread? Please put that in too when you get a chance (good to see that you keep back up)

Nevertheless, I'm glad this time around you chose to keep private your private posts about the size of your privates - now don't deny it because someone else may have backups of those.

To issue ...

Story for you and your head nodders might be a no name book trying to spin facts. Fine - the jury's out on dates/times as seen in other forums too (link provided). Anyone can pickup a no name book and debate whether branch collapsed because of sparrow's weight or branch was too weak in first place. I for one don't care on the issue - especially given the fact the book in question is not popular one and secondly the author has his obivious bias.

The real isssue is as to why are you pumping an old hashed out issue (remember you own posts going back to last year after which you beat a hasty retreat) as some grand findings of an investigation? Whether the blasts started the fire riots or vice versa might be a debate (which was pretty well covered in various forums - you paw prints at Sandeepweb too are there for any objective surfer to read and form his own opinions). For (atleast) me the issue seems to your persistent proping up of this story to cover the whitewash J B D'Souza's role with respect to the commission as they didn't give him the necessary coverage to sink a few political opponents of his business partners.

I can't speak from Nakula or anyone else. Here's my question Dilip:

(a) How many people have read the Sir Joshi book? Is it that popular that you are making it out to be? Or it's in your interest that this book becomes popular?

(b) J B D'Souza "landed" was called by Srikrishna commission - other media blurbs had him leading the effort. How come?

(c) How many articles have you written propping up your J B D'Souza on Srikrishan issue?

(e) Has J B D'Souza been periodically doing the same with respect to other riots? If so can you give any examples? From little I've read he had an unusual interest in this case. Any Mumbaikar who's seen their share of riots under the reign of babus like J B D'Souza will surely like to know.

(f) Did this issue help J B D'Souza and his business partners Gore, Narvekar etc.. who coincidently happen to be political rivals of those you write against?

arZan said...

I cant really understand how idiotic a conversation can become. I guess its because words are cheap and free and so one can spew them without feeling the pinch.

Dilip raised a point about how the book is misleading. What has that got to do with what dilip's father does ?? Or for that matter what has that got to do with the blasts in coimbatore. Yes they may encompass a larger overall issue, but the point of the post is that the book in question is one riddled with lies and a complete reinterpretation of the timeline and of history.

Thank God, its a non-descript book, but imagine that some lunatic government comes to power tomorrow and makes this as compulsory text for some standard in school ?? What happens then. There have already been instances when the BJP government and their cohorts tried to change NCERT Textbooks with their form of history.

k said...

>>I guess its because words are cheap and free and so one can spew them without feeling the pinch.

Welcome to dorkyness - an art perfected by likes of Dilip.

Hurts when it comes back ain't it?

arZan: I'll wait for Dilip's answer since you are clueless on an ongoing issue which has been a topic of discussion for past couple years.

As for text books, I believe Rahul and Priyanka have already made it into history books ... so off you go and rejoice. ta ta..

Prathap M said...

> the jury's out on dates/times....

Riots: December 92 and Janury 93. Blasts: March 93.

The "jury's out" on these dates/times?

> Whether the blasts started the
> fire riots or vice versa might be
> a debate.....

Riots: December 92 and Janury 93. Blasts: March 93.

There's a "debate" on whether December 92 and January 93 is before March 93, or "vice versa"? These "debaters" are trying to figure out whether March 93 is before December 92?

No wonder these fellows need to descend into irrelevant abuse.

Anonymous said...

Prathap:

Welcome to fools game where it all ends with 'it's those Brahmins' or 'Barbar started it' or the 'Goan rascal Thomas started it'

Further reading in case you are done teaching kindergardners that Jan's before Feb, Feb's before Mar etc..
Varsha Bhosale's rediff article

Sandeepweb

Prathap M said...

> you are done teaching
> kindergardners that Jan's before
> Feb, Feb's before Mar etc..

Have you learned it? obviously not, so I'm not done teaching it!

You said:- "the jury's out on dates/times".

The riots happened in december 1992 and Janury 1993. The bomb blasts happened in March 1993. Is your "jruy" out on these dates? Yes or no?

You said:- "Whether the blasts started the fire riots or vice versa might be a debate".

What debate? The blasts happened after the riots, so obviously the blasts could not have "started" the riots. What are you debating? Why do you try to intruduce uncertainty where there is none?

This is the point of this post. There are guys lying about these dates and trying to make out that the blasts set off the ritos. You are doing the same. When people try to pin you down to answer that spreading of lie, you throw around all kinds of irrelevant abuse under multiple names.

No wonder you have to do it that abuse, because you have no answer.

k said...

So Dilip's silent or posting as Pratap now? You know.. bluff being called and all.

Pratap (if Pratap <> Dilip):
>>Have you learned it? obviously not, so I'm not done teaching it!
You can teach all you want, obviously you are out of your grade. Come back after you've read the links I've provided.

k said...

Yo Dilip sahib,

No responses yet? Let me repeat:

(i) J B D'Souza "landed" was called by Srikrishna commission - other media blurbs had him leading the effort. How come?

(ii) How many articles have you written propping up your J B D'Souza on Srikrishan issue?

(iii) Has J B D'Souza been periodically doing the same with respect to other riots? If so can you give any examples? From little I've read he had an unusual interest in this case. Any Mumbaikar who's seen their share of riots under the reign of babus like J B D'Souza will surely like to know.

(iv) Did this issue help J B D'Souza and his business partners Gore, Narvekar etc.. who coincidently happen to be political rivals of those you write against?

Anonymous said...

Let me see, wasn't it your father, Mr J B D'Souza, who, when interrogated by advocate Adhik Shirodkar for the Srikrishna Commission, said that he didn't know where Jogeshwari was and had never been to Behrampada?
from Rediff

Anonymous said...

^^

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